Best in the West Paintball

[Djmattz]

Titch and cunning chill out here yeah, gary does not make the rules he only abides by them. These forums were not made to make enemies, they were made for friends to talk about the sport we love! Gary is only suggesting that you do not ask any member of NST to look or be responsable in these events he has not said you have done so, he simply asked that you don't! The rules state that you must sign a disclaimer with an responsable adult present so they must also sign it as you are a "minor". Therefore as most of the big games are far away such as yorkshire, that would mean the adult would have to travel to yorkshire to sign a little piece of white paper, would your parents be up for doing that titch ? Also getting there would be a problem for you aswell cbecause the only people who can take you would be your parents.

Lets not fall out here guys, its a joyful day be it my 18th and all *cheesy grin* and lets leave it at that. Titch if you would like to know more research through the amazing world of the interweb

[Scally]

Titch and cunning chill out here yeah, gary does not make the rules he only abides by them. These forums were not made to make enemies, they were made for friends to talk about the sport we love! Gary is only suggesting that you do not ask any member of NST to look or be responsable in these events he has not said you have done so, he simply asked that you don't! The rules state that you must sign a disclaimer with an responsable adult present so they must also sign it as you are a "minor". Therefore as most of the big games are far away such as yorkshire, that would mean the adult would have to travel to yorkshire to sign a little piece of white paper, would your parents be up for doing that titch ? Also getting there would be a problem for you aswell cbecause the only people who can take you would be your parents.

i agree! gary's not making the rules, he's obiding by them! the rules are being pointed out to view and take note of...so that everyone is aware of the rules that are uk wide (and probably world wide)! its for safety and sensebility! its a bit of a long trek, as dj said, to travel to a place, such as yorkshire, to sign a piece of paper!

[Benji]

Guy's chill out a min. We know that we can't goto scenarios and a member of NST can't be resbonsible for us. If scenario games made a disclamer that i know sites do. Like they email one or you download it off a website and our parents signed it and we sent it back to the scenario organiser or take it with us to the game surley that would be ok wouldn't it? We are all freinds here lets not all fall out now

[Taylor]

At the end of the day it's not down to Gary, you or even your parents whether you're allowed to attend a game. The site owner has to be willing to have you play there. If this involves you signing a disclaimer with your parents there, then that's what you've gotta do. If the site owner is happy to email you a disclaimer, have it signed by your parents and for you to bring it with you, then great! At Takur Gahr (which was about a month before my 18th) this is what happened - I got the disclaimer with my player's pack, got it signed by my folks and bought it with me. No problems.

I don't know what the site owner would say about camping before the event, the player's party etc. If they're happy to risk having you there, then that's fine, but it's their decision, noone else's! So it's immaterial that none of NST would be your responsible adult, if the site owner is happy with a presigned disclaimer!

Best advice is, I guess, email/phone the site owner before booking on any event and asking the questions. Worse that can happen would be them saying no, which puts you in no different position to what you're in now.

(Although technically disclaimers have absolutely no legal standing...so this argument is completely moot..but some people put a lot of faith in little pieces of paper )

Hope this doesn't ramble and clears up a lot of stuff for you guys!

[Djmattz]

Used some big words there taylor like in, at and it!!! :D:D

[Cessle]

its not just getting a bit of paper signed but also transport if you were to travel with us we would be legal responsible for you also players partys are not aimed at under 18s and would mean some one would have to look after you during that evening

[Garage]

+1

Its the whole who is actually responsible for a minor. if they are in my car and i crash and they're injured that makes me responsible. The fact their parent/guardian isn't with them is irrelevant.

N.J.T members i'm not trying to stop you playing i'm trying to get you to see that the responsibility for you should fall to parents/guardians. That responsibility includes transport to and from games plus any players parties you attend. Otherwise if something bad happens then its the person your with who becomes responsible.

[Tank]

its actually most paintball sites, under 18's have to have an adult to sign for them. I am not prepared to sign for you or any of the N.J.T it might seem stupid to you but i don't want to be the one to tell your parents that you hurt yourself. If you want to come to scenario games then you have to act responsibly and bring a parent.

Not evewn if i get a letter or face-to-face, telling you that it is ok? And then i have a spare one to show anyone who asks? with contact details etc on it?

your right you didn't ask titch! but its certainly implied, and if that is not what you meant then perhaps you should try and get a better grasp of the english language.

theres also this little thing called "guilty by association" but at a paintball game i'm sure it would be flipped to "responsible by association"
what i mean is that say you attended a big game in some other part of the country and something was to happen to you in game, a member of nemesis at that said game could be asked to attend hospital with you (if it was needed) and here is where i become brutally honest, if your arrogance around this issue caused me to be called out of a game and i was asked to attend hospital with you, and i would because i am nice like that, your injuries would be the least of your worries! i paintball to enjoy myself and have fun at the end of my working week, not to look after teenagers.

[Titch]

I give up, i quit..

[Garage]

No one is telling you you cant play, we're just expressing concerns.

We want you to be safe at these events and are trying to make you see why you need parental guidance there.

[Tank]

I give up, i quit..

get a grip and grow some balls as you are certainly not showing maturity!

I don't want you to quit, I want you to understand the issues that us senior players have ,and why we have them ,with under 18's attending the same games as us, its not anything personal it's just the way it is.

[Benji]

Titch chill out will you arguing isnt going to do you or NJT any favours.

Thesse guys are just trying to make sure that nothing would happen to us if we went away without an over 18 taking responsiplty for us.

[matzy]

Have been reading this debate with interest, and feel I would like to add my own point, some may already have read this but what the hell.. I like to repeat myself..

As we, the Bone Collectors, were made welcome at all the games we attend I'm sure NJT will be too so I dont see where the comment about Garage preventing you from coming arises. I imagine NJT members will find it hard with transport issues as this would require most likely require a parent taking them.

From a safety point of view, at n'v's we had one guy break a leg, at SATR we had a torn ligament plus a few sprains, I personally wouldn't want to explain to a parent how their child ended up injured when I was supposed to be looking after them! And fully understand how anyone else would not want that responsibility.

Now a legal point of view. Whilst I refer to you as children or child please do not take it personally, as no offence is intended. I use the terms as depicted by British law that anyone under the age of 18 is classed as a minor and therefore falls into the category of a child. Whilst you may be physically or mentally mature enough to participate in paintball games any situations involving law, insurance or other governing bodies will not take this into consideration and still class you as a kid, child or minor. This is why sites have disclaimers to sign and why a parent or guardian has to sign on behalf of a minor. Dan may be 18 now (today infact, happy birthday son) but only two weeks ago I had to sign a disclaimer for him at the age of 17 years, 11 months and 2 weeks, this was required by the insurance company of the site and so by law, he was still a kid.

Now a final, and most likely more serious issue. The horrible thing called trust! The law is being amended and possibly changing soon regarding, in particular, the transportation of minors by responsible adults. For example, a Dad take his son to a weekly football match, some of the son's mates also go along in the same people carrier, no problem before, but very soon the Dad will need to be CRB checked and registered just to be able to transport these minors to and from a football match, or even a paintball game! If he is not CRB registered he faces a serious fine if stopped and checked by the police. Not a very nice prospect for the Dad.

At NO point has anyone said "Your not coming", instead it has always been "You'll need a responsible adult" .. I don't see anything there that would make me think steps are being taken to prevent minors from playing. Let face it, my 12 year old son plays paintball, he's even in our team, but he has never, and will never play without me being there as an adult responsible for his welfare, and its a responsibility I would not want to put on anyone else.

Phew.. that's my thoughts anyway, I could say much more but the screen is all fuzzy and blurred now.. Must be the age effect having yet another son cross from the cruel cruel world of being a minor!

[Cunning]

Titch i dont wanna go against you but there is no need to Quit, I'm sure there is loads of ways that we can get to games with parents or someone that is 18 that is a relative, there is no need to just randomly quit we can work it all out and everything,

Matzy you do have a very fair comment and see where you are coming from and see what you mean, I sure that we can work it out and if we want to go to any games or scenarios we can ask out parent in advance or something so that we know if we can make it or not
Just leave it at that :)

[Garage]

And that, Cunning, is spot on. You have the calender to look at, ask them and remind them and badger them until the commit. Try picking the local games like CotC 3, Bunker and Takur Gahr 2 as a start then hit them with Wakefield, NvS etc etc etc as they get used to it and also ask different parents, not the same one.